Interview with Tim Kane, the MEL (Minimum Equipment List) Manager, my crew leader at my internship site.
1.How did you get started, and why did this type of work or industry interest you?
When I got started in aviation I was on a different career path, my are of interest was to be a mechanic, and I had entered the military where I had learnt my trade, and then after my military service I still had to continue my school. I went to trade school, and to technical school for aircraft maintenance. Then I started working in the industry as a mechanic. At the time, 25-30 years ago, I had no idea that one day I would be working in management. It really wasn’t part of my plan. What had happened over time, was the job pushed me in that direction. I found other people I worked would suggest: “you should be a lead” or “you should be a shop steward”, “maybe you should run for a union representative”, all that was interesting to me, but it was really like the job was more getting me into it than my personal interest. But then, around 1998 was when I started in management, and the real issue was that the company I had worked for was shutting down. So, I had to look for a new work, and the job that was available was actually outside of my area where I was comfortable commuting, but I needed the work, so I decided to get it, to accept the work offer, which happened to be an entry level management position as a maintenance controller, and from that point on, that was really the only road I was following, to continue down that career path, as a maintenance controller in management role. I have had several roles in my career, as a mechanic, as a lead, and then later to be a maintenance controller. Then in that positon I became a duty manager and then I had the new responsibilities of work that I do currently, which is to be at the MEL revision and review, because I was really familiar with what the criteria was. But again, it wasn’t really my choice, the job came to me in a way. The person that recommended me and was my reference many years ago passed away, and I was asked to take on the work he was doing, and I accepted it. I have been doing it ever since. I have been doing the same type of work for the last 12 years now, I started as a duty manager and then I became a straight manager and then eventually I took on help with MEL controller, so really the job came to me. I really didn’t pursue it from the beginning, so it worked out well so far.
2.What part of this job do you personally find most satisfying? Most challenging?
Most satisfying part of the job is the challenge. A lot of the topics (I introduced you to few), as you were going through the work projects that we have and maybe I discussed the high level what we were doing and what the goal was, but inside of each particular project there was a lot of complicated problems that needed to be solved. In various aspects of the airline, getting all of those pieces and coordinating small piece of change with each department stakeholders, and in some cases there is five-seven different stakeholders that need: one, to know that the regulation has changed or the equipment that we’re installing has to conform with a different aspects of a regulation, and then we have to discuss with each individual what the impact of the change is, and then finally getting them agree that the change was necessary, or that it wasn’t just something that we have made up, that it was valuable, it had an impact on an airline in a lot of ways . All of it must be discussed and then put into writing. I think that is the most complicated thing for me and most challenging is getting that from start to finish, and as you saw with the project list, a lot of projects that were and still are in the works are overlapping themselves in the periods of time, not only from year to year, but also within the same months. Many projects, some bits and pieces are being coordinated daily, at the same time, and as you could see, some of them takes so long because it is difficult to satisfy the concurrence requirements, like, ok, this is what it is, all right- let me read through it, I’ll get back to you when I have an answer. – Ok, but I need it next week. Sometimes, or I should probably say many times, is not simple to coordinate that change, but it is necessary with everything what we are doing here. I can say, that what is really satisfying in a way, is seeing is from time to finish, especially in a timely manner, but it also usually is that by the time we get to end of it, we are like: ok, great. But to be honest, we are working on so many other things at the same time, so its perpetual work cycle, that even though the topic might change in a next one assignment, but the work that you do or the steps you must follow to coordinate all of the change remain the same. So, its really satisfying to see it from start to finish and all of the unique details in the middle, which we could name goals and milestones along the way, it is really interesting to me to follow that
3.What do you like most about JetBlue Airways? What do you dislike most?
What I like the most about JetBlue Airways is that I came to JetBlue in the very beginning, although I am not considered a founder. Those are the people that started in late 90’s or early in 2001 or 2002. I came just after them, so it was still very beginning, it was still a very small group. At the time, everybody knew who you were, in a way, and if you were in a role that had a lot of responsibilities, you knew exactly who the person was. And I really liked that, not because it was small, but it was close. Even the founder of the company, like David Nielman, he would come on a Sunday morning in a t-shirt and sneakers, pull up a chair next to you and be like: “hey, what you doing?” – “Well, I am working on that project, trying to figure out when we could coordinate these maintenance intervals” – I would answer. He would then say: “Oh, it’s hard”, “Yeah, it takes a whole day”. That is what I liked about working in the early years of the company, the one-on-one in a way connection and relationship with a founder of a company, which was great to be honest, I really liked that part.
And to continue on that question, what I dislike about this company, although it shouldn’t be taken in a negative way, because the company is growing right now, it’s unfortunate that we cannot stay close anymore- that’s the dislike. We don’t have the same continuity and interaction with people that you used to have over the years. And even the people that have been for as long as I am (I have been here for more than 15 years), I see them and we all miss those days. But I need to admit that you cannot continue to do business that way, because we are larger, but it was great to have that in a beginning.
4.How does your company differ from its competitors? Either in a positive or negative way.
In a positive way, JetBlue started new, brand new, and the whole idea of JetBlue from the beginning was to give airline travelers more value. Immediately, what you notice when you board a JetBlue aircraft is a bigger seat, and you don’t have to pay extra for it, that’s it, that’s all we have. It’s a bigger seat, more legroom, and you get free snacks. And it’s not just a tiny bag of peanuts, it’s a big bag of chips or pretzels, and get a lot- and you can always ask for more, and what came later is an in-flight wi-fi, a free in-flight wi-fi. A lot of our competitors have wi-fi, they had it before us, but we waited. In the early days f the internet, there was a dialup, and if you were to use todays, you would pull your hair out how slow the internet is. That’s the kind of speed that our customers have in some ways. But we have waited, and we waited for the technology, and what we really wanted was that we were going to have hundred people on an airplane and they all wanted to have high-speed internet. That technology wasn’t available yet, until JetBlue had invested in the ViaSat and we partnered with that company that has actually launched a satellite with brand new equipment on it so that you could get a high-speed internet on our airplanes. So, we have this interesting opportunity that the internet that we are using, is ours, that is dedicated to us. Now there is more companies with such technology, but we were really the pioneers of it. Right away when you get on our airplane, the internet connection is good, the speed is fast, and it’s free, which is a lot of value for the customer, where if were you to go on another airline, you would be charged some amount of money for an access to the internet, you would be charged for snack, the seat doesn’t reclaim, the space is tiny, there is a fee for a carry-on baggage. I believe that’s what makes us different, and I will keep on going on with that value, because if you look on the price of the ticket, you get all of those features, while in some other airlines, even though the ticket fare may be slightly less, you will not get all of this, and before you know it, with all of those amenities, you end up paying the same, if not even more for the ticket. Also, in case of the airline that starts with the letter “S”, you get none of it. I admit, that their product may be right for someone who is looking for the cheapest price but then there is the whole experience, and the customer’s satisfaction ratings in both instances have spoken.
5.Are you optimistic about the industry’s future and your future with the company?
I am absolutely positive about industry’s future. There is a lot of innovations coming today, right now. They are happening as we speak, and a lot of changes that I make, and that we as a team are making are current changes in the industry, for example, when you look at one project that we have been working on that is called CPDLC which is basically a communication between a pilot and a dispatcher, and we can think of it as a text messaging from a cockpit to the dispatcher or to the Air Traffic Controller, where you don’t really need to use radio to communicate, you get the text message on the screen that says this or says that, some updates of the routes, or your new departure time is, and you just push a button to acknowledge that you received the message and complied with, and with that you eliminate three to five minutes on a radio. That’s new and there is a whole bunch of new things that are being implemented as we speak. Another example of t is FANS, which stands for Future Air Navigation System, and the CPDLC I mentioned before is a part of that. It’s all about being more integrated and networked so that the ATC and more have an access not only to a direct info of your flight stats that are attached to a flight along a route, but also they will have a chance to see what equipment ability in various scenarios you will have on an airplane, like can you land in a bad weather, or do you have to wait for the weather to improve- this and more is a part of the information that are being attached to the airplane’s data, and it is all essential to make the process of information exchange, planning and operation procedures easier. And even though the industry’s future looks great, we are actually playing a catch-up when it comes to industry standards in the United States because, everything is limited to budget constraints. Europe has already been using FANS, and they have had it in place, but the government there is structured differently. The government is a sponsor or a provider of almost everything in a lot of European countries, whereas for us- not so much. In here, the government regulates, but the industry must find the budget to make it work, so at least when you are getting to technology like this, we are getting to the technology that has been tested, has been proven, and even though we are getting there a little late comparing to other parts of the world, we are not wasting the money and time for something we are not sure of, not sure if it is going to work.
And as JetBlue becomes using more of these future investments, we see several savings in fuel cost, time, and if that text messaging saves five minutes on the ground and then you are arriving five minutes early at your destination, you can actually have all the planes to land before the airport closes, because we need to consider that not all of them operate around the clock, so the technology part has a lot of advantages, and I am looking forward to it in the future.
6.Can you suggest some ways a student could obtain the necessary experience?
It’s good to get to a student at young age. In 9th or 10th grade when students are trying to pick what they are going to do for the rest of their life, and in many instances, for many of them it is really tough time, because you don’t really now that much about what you are picking. Some may be like, oh I really want to be an accountant, because my grandfather was ac accountant, and my father was one, or they want to be a veterinarian, because they love puppies. But they don’t really know what the job is all about. The great thing that we have available here is the internship, like in your case, you may have never thought about working or even interning in the aviation industry or in an airline. Right now, you are working on a business degree, and there are plenty of business related aspects of an airline. We have been able to introduce you to one particular aspect of it, which is the regulatory compliance. To be able to bring the student or the intern into the environment and to let the student see what function does the department have, not only as an airline, even though as an airline most people see only the pilots and flight attendant, people don’t consider any of the back-office work that needs to be done for that pilot to actually have an airplane there today for him to fly out. There is quite a lot of that back-office work. And having student as an intern, to share some of that experience, to see that there is work that needs to be done, that there are projects that needs to be done, and that there is staffing required to allocate those hours and work to, and if you don’t have the staffing, the project will take time, in some cases years, even if it’s not a very big project, because there are constantly other, higher priority projects that jump in front. There is a lot of moving pieces, because with prioritization we sometimes have to use extension in some cases, and instead of the project to be due next week, it will be due in 30 days. Especially, when we have to deal with outside stakeholders, such as an FAA, from which we sometimes wait for an answer for weeks, if not months. In that way of bringing a student or an intern into an airline, and letting him see two, three areas of what different departments are doing in common, because event though I have my work, eventually, my work is getting handed over to somebody else, to other department to finish, to publish, or to distribute, and getting to see all of those proceeding on your own, even if the student is not going to work for an airline, it is a great opportunity for him to come and see, and learn. But with the internship, ultimately the student is going to make a choice, maybe it is going to be the company he would like to work for.
But also depending on a position, each may require a different credentials and license, which then require different schooling and education. And to get a license, a person needs to start working, or have an experience of working somewhere, which may be either working here in the office, or working on the airport. But also we do have some programs for students, who would like to get experience of the aviation industry.
One is the College Crew, which is really about the business side of an airline, but there is also Aviation High School, where you also learn an aircraft maintenance, and you can graduate with prat of your license, and you can stay for an extra semester to finish your complete license, but then we have students here, in our engineering department, working as an interns with engineers, so as students graduating high school, they can see how the aircraft works, which they may not get from sitting in a classroom. Many of the people working here, that are from the New York City area went to Aviation High School, so as a community, we have many people coming from that program.
7.What are some leadership lessons you’ve learned over your career?
Some people are born leaders, and other wants follow them, it’s a unique characteristic of some, but it’s not everybody. Some of the things that I needed to learn were organizational skills. I knew how to take care of a task, I knew how to fix things- that came naturally, but once I got into a leadership role, I never really got the tools or I never learned it in school, because I really never followed that career path, I didn’t take a management class in school I came from a different field, which is a mechanic not a manager, so I had to learn all of it. And JetBlue, and as I am sure many other companies have this kind of programs, like in-class leadership training, where we learn some of the basic management skills. So, I took the Principles of Leadership 1 and in few years after me getting the experience in that field, I went back to take the Principles of Leadership 2, where they gave me more instructions, so that a person may learn how to manage a project, and how to work with people, and how to get the project done without touching any of it yourself. There are quite a few leadership lessons coming to you overtime, and if you’re paying attention you’ll pick some advice of others. Some people don’t have that gene, that allows them to listen.
Other advice that I have gotten, was to always surround yourself with the old guys, especially during breakfast and lunch. Those are the one with the most experience, and you need to listen what they have to say, because there is quite an experience in their conversation. If you listen to what they are going to say, you will end up using this or that form their techniques, and you may end up finishing the task faster or better. The information that you give back may be more complete, since some people tend to put to much information in their communication. So, the leadership lessons usually come as you go, an if you pay an attention, you will be able to pick some of them up. And if a person doesn’t understand something, he needs to ask questions.
8.Any thoughts on the art of running effective meetings?
Running effective meetings is difficult. The reason being is that you need to have an agenda. One need to be prepared and need to know what questions need to be asked. I tend to make meetings go long, just because it is my nature. I prefer to explain things to everybody well, before we finish, which sometimes with a short meeting, you end up emailing each other after that to follow up what you meant in here, what you meant in there. So, budget your time, have an agenda, and leave the rom at then end for stretch, because sometimes the meeting may run long. That’s about it.
9.If you could do things all over again, would you choose the same path for yourself? Why? What would you change?
I think my path would have been different f I would have more information as a young person. When I was a junior at high school I had to decide what path I was going to choose, and my choice was aviation. I wanted to fix helicopters, that was my idea and that was all I knew. If I had known that in that career choice there was so many different choices that I could select differently, if I had that information at that time, my career would have play differently. Although, at the same time, I need to admit- it still ended up very well for me. I would think maybe that I would have selected a different specialty, that would give me more detailed experience in an area that I was more interested in. In my case, I generalized. I got into a skill that was really general. I was working in a shop environment where I did a bunch of different jobs, repairs. Even though I got a a lot of a well-rounded experience, I wasn’t doing exactly what I thought I was going to do when I saw that paper to join the army. But here I am years late, into almost 30 years into my career, and along the way I saw bunch of things that appealed to me, and became interesting to me. When I look back I would think that the aircraft dispatcher would be more appealing to me, like it is really an interesting job, not only they deal with planes, the systems, but also, they are about the weather, route planning, and bunch of other regulatory things that are similar in a way to what I am doing, except that they’re not repairing anything- they are those planning how it is going to fly. Maybe if I had known more about that years ago, I might’ve chosen that, I just didn’t know. But I can’t complain, the job has been good, the career has been great. I have been able to do well, so I guess you just don’t know, but for some people they realize that what they’re doing is not the best for them, or that they even hat what they’re doing. But you went 4 years to college, you paid a lot of money, you hope you better like, otherwise, you made a bad choice, and in my regard, in my time, when I started, not everybody went to college. We still had trade schools, and if you were interested in business, you went to business school. If you were interested in architecture, there was one specific for that, and I went to trade school, instead of going to college. And here I am, now I am almost 50 years old, and I am going to college- because I am in that position as a manager, where the college education would benefit me. But I had no plans to be where I am today at the beginning. Who knew- I am 50 years old, and I am working on my bachelor’s degree. So, there might have been some things that I would have changed if had known more then.
Artur's Internship Experience 